Podcast Archives – It's All Journalism

444. How Documented uses WhatsApp to reach its audience

Reporting on immigrants and refugees is a daunting task. Getting that coverage back to those protagonists can be equally difficult, especially if the reporter and publication use a different language.

Mazin Sidahmed started his career as a software engineer, but his passion for journalism led him to cover immigrants and refugees, first reporting about the plight of Syrian refugees in Lebanon before moving to the United States and reporting on broader immigration issues.

In early 2017, following the inauguration and early dramatic policy changes around immigration from the Trump administration, Sidahmed and a friend started thinking about taking on a project focused on immigration reform. They received a grant to start a newsroom and saw a great opportunity to work more directly with the immigrant and refugee community.

Their project, Documented, covers “New York City immigrants and the policies that affect their lives,” Sidahmed says. “One of the things we knew starting this was people who work on immigration issues professionally will gravitate toward our work.”

The challenge, then, was finding ways to get their work out in front of the people who would be not only their audience, but their sources and the voices in their reporting.

“When I was in Lebanon, I’d go to a refugee camp, go back and write a story, and there would be no connection to the protagonist of my story. The story was published in a language they don’t speak. … We wanted to break that cycle and make sure the people affected by our stories were the people reading our stories. We started off thinking it would be easy, we’d just translate our stories into other languages and people would find it. That wasn’t the case.”

They partnered with a professor who taught a class on reporting with communities and learned, through a year-long project, that while people were interested in the expected kind of information — how to find lawyers, how to extend visas — but learned there was no centralized place to get information and the resources they were looking to access.

They also learned that the immigrant and refugee community utilized WhatsApp, a secure social networking platform, to share what information they had.

Documented is now a WhatsApp newsletter. People are finding their articles and reporting via searches, in which a few sentences are published but readers are encouraged to send Documented a message and join their group.

“It has revolutionized our approach to journalism,” Sidahmed says. “We re-engineered our newsroom to be focused from the ground-up, making sure people affected by our stories were our readers. We didn’t realize what it took to achieve that until we did community engagement work. Now we are reaching a place where that’s true and we’re building a secure relationship. People are feeding us information that’s the source of stories, and they’re in the stories. It’s become more organic.”

It’s All Journalism host Michael O’Connell speaks with Mazin‌ ‌Sidahmed‌, founder of the immigration publication Documented. They discuss how WhatsApp has become Documented’s distribution network and why listening to the immigration and refugee community changed the course of his work.

433. Movement journalism: A way to report on injustice

Better News: Use Slack to host cultural conversations in your newsroom

Corinne Chin and Lauren Frohne are video journalists at The Seattle Times. They wrote a piece for Better News on how the Times is using Slack to lower barriers, expose insensitivity, and allow conversations about cultural issues that can arise from their stories. Better News host Michael O’Connell talks to Chin about how newsrooms can use Slack to facilitate similar conversations.

The Better News podcast is a partnership between It’s All Journalism and the American Press Institute to a) showcase innovative/experimental ideas that emerge from the Knight-Lenfest Newsroom Initiative and b) to share replicable strategies and tactics that benefit the news industry as a whole. Sign up for the Better News newsletter to receive news about the latest resources, case studies, and insights. For more news about the It’s All Journalism podcast and future episodes of Better News, sign up for the weekly IAJ newsletter.

443. Tucson newspaper proves to be a vital source for the Latinx community

The Latinx community around Tucson, Arizona, has been one of the hardest hit by the pandemic. La Estrella De Tucson, a weekly Spanish-language newspaper, with the support of the Arizona Daily Star, has taken this moment to refocus on what its readers want and need to know in order to better protect their health and their futures.

Liliana Lopez has worked for the paper for 16 years and became its editor last year. While she’s the only writer on staff for La Estrella, she says the support of the Arizona Daily Star newsroom has helped her share information, in English and Spanish, with her community.

“Other publications here are more oriented to commercial or marketing. I don’t want to say they’re not doing a good job but they have a different role,” she says. “La Estrella is doing real journalism. … I think our community recognizes our effort. The organizations who are trying to help the Latinx community have been working very closely with us.”

In addition to her new title at La Estrella, Lopez also was afforded the opportunity to participate in a Community Listening Fellowship sponsored by the American Press Institute.

“Something had been broken at some point and we were very focused on how to better know and listen to our audience,” she says. “Then we learned about this fellowship. We applied and I‘m so grateful that the American Press Institute gave me the opportunity to be part of this program. It couldn’t be more important for me and for us at La Estrella.”

After the fellowship, Lopez and the paper initiated a reader and community survey to better understand the readers, their concerns, their issues, and what they held to be important.

“We learned that we have the same dreams, the same issues,” she says. “We all want to be healthy, we want to be in a better position, but we are not all at the same level. We wanted to work, to do journalism that would be useful for our community. This fellowship came at the very right moment for us.”

Top among the list of priorities: affordable health services and ways to help children go to college.

La Estrella has worked to provide information to its readers not only about federal programs for health care, but also community-based health opportunities for those who might not be eligible for government assistance.

“We created a couple of stories telling people why and how this pandemic is affecting more of our Latinx students, especially with illegal status. What we learned in those past months is now in use to create relevant journalism in this pandemic. Health services and education opportunities are one of our focuses. We have been able to address these subjects in the pandemic context.”

It’s All Journalism host Michael O’Connell talks with Liliana Lopez, editor of La Estrella de Tucson, a weekly Spanish-language paper in Arizona. They discuss what she learned from the American Press Institute’s Community Listening Fellowship and how she put that information to use to help the Latinx community during the pandemic.

437. Objectivity, racism, and the crisis of credibility

Top 10 podcast episodes of 2020

Every New Year’s Day, we like to look back at the most popular episodes to see what topics and guests proved to be the most interesting to our listeners.

Here are the Top 10 episodes released by It’s All Journalism in 2020:

Public Narrative works to help newsrooms find stories they may be missing

Jhmira Alexander, president of Public Narrative, discusses the importance of educating community partners on how news works.

The more journalism and social media change, the more journalists are needed

Amy Eisman of American University’s School of Communication discusses how things have changed in ways large and small and why real, fact-based journalism has never been more important.

Critical thinking is an essential skill for journalists

Jonathan Haber, author of a new book by MIT Press, discusses how journalists can use critical thinking to improve their reporting.

What’s it like for a new journalist?

Sarah Ramantanis, an intern with World Vision Australia talks about the challenges facing new journalists and how she’s trying to make a name for herself.

Mike Donoghue and David Cohn talk about how the coronavirus is changing newsrooms.

Coronavirus is changing how newsrooms work

David Cohn and Mike Donoghue of The Alpha Group talk about how the coronavirus pandemic is altering the way newsrooms work.

America has a bad case of truth decay, according to new RAND report

Jennifer Kavanagh of RAND talks about her new book, Truth Decay: An Initial Exploration of the Diminishing Role of Facts and Analysis in American Public Life.

Simon Rogers data journalism expert — Simon Rogers is a data journalism expert with the Google News Initiative.

Data journalism in the age of coronavirus

Simon Rogers, a data journalism expert with the Google News Initiative, discusses how data journalism can help reporters find new ways to cover coronavirus.

Better News: How To Forge New Audiences Of Color

C.J. Benjamin, emerging audiences editor for the Democrat and Chronicle, discusses how the paper successfully developed a strategy to better engage a younger and more diverse audience.

Author and editor Elizabeth Mitchell (Ceridwen Morris) — Author and editor Elizabeth Mitchell talks about the interview process and writing. (Ceridwen Morris)

Fake news, presidential deception and the Civil War

Elizabeth Mitchell, author of Lincoln’s Lie: A True Civil War Caper Through Fake News, Wall Street and the White House, talks about the interview process and how 1864 is more like 2020 than most people realize.

Tina Vasquez discusses movement journalism

Movement journalism: A way to report on injustice

Tina Vasquez explains how movement journalism can help reporters present stories about marginalized and underserved communities.

442. 2020 Lookback: America from Canada’s perspective

The long peaceful border between the U.S. and Canada provides for more than just easy passage (in non-COVID times) between countries. It allows for shared experiences and stories that cross freely through radio and TV broadcasts.

The two countries are separate entities, however, and in the 1960s, many fled the draft during the Vietnam War to find shelter from the conflict in Canada.

In the lead-up to the November election, Dave Bidini and his West End Phoenix newspaper in Toronto wanted to use the time to talk with some American ex-pats living in Toronto about what it was like to observe that chaos from afar and how their life in Canada was different from what they left behind.

It was an ambitious project — while the broadsheet paper usually publishes once a month or about every five weeks, this was the paper’s second issue in October — and contains 25 personal narratives about what it’s like to be an American living in Canada.

“One of the things I wanted to check at the door was the self-aggrandizement that happens when Canadians write about the States,” says Bidini, one of the paper’s creators and a founder of the band the Rheostatics. “We’re pretty good at positioning ourselves as superior. We overlook our own issues when talking about ourselves in the context of the States. … Often when you find, when there’s the perspective from Canada about other places, it’s always gun laws and health care, but there’s a lot of ways we fall short.”

In the issue, simply called The Americans, Bidini says he was heartened to see stories of longing.

“Lot of people said it’s great being in Toronto but I miss my home and I miss my family and I miss this about living in the U.S.,” he says. “One woman talks about having a beautiful home in Detroit with a big yard and what it cost her for living in that city. I was pleasantly surprised people were able to talk about their yearning for a place they left.”

It’s All Journalism host Michael O’Connell is rejoined by Dave Bidini, co-founder of The Rheostatics and the West End Phoenix, a Toronto-based broadsheet newspaper. They discuss The Americans, a special edition published just before the November election in which ex-pats living in Toronto write about what it’s like to observe the U.S. from across the shared border during a difficult time.

#357 Keeping print alive in Toronto’s West End

Remembering Tiffany Shackelford

On Tuesday, the Society for News Design shared the sad news that its executive director, Tiffany Shackelford, had died. Tiffany was a long-time supporter of our podcast and she will be missed.

Megan Cloherty and I first interviewed Tiffany back in 2013, during the first year of our podcast. It was a fun conversation and was really the start of this podcast’s long friendship with her.

Tiffany Shackelford of the Association for Alternative Newsmedia talks about the positive things going on in the alternative press.

Every time I saw Tiffany at a conference or an event, it was always a blast. She was great storyteller and had a huge heart.

Tiffany helped set up our long-time relationship with AAN. After she left that organization to join the National Governors Association, she invited me to produce NGA’s first podcast series. She also hooked me up with members of SND for podcast interviews and arranged for me to cover the SND conference in Washington, D.C.

When I was out of work in 2019, I had lunch with Tiffany and she was so supportive and positive, which was something I really needed then.

To honor Tiffany’s memory, I’m reposting the conversation Tiffany had with Megan and me back in 2013. For this of you who knew her, I hope this reminds you of what a wonderful person Tiffany was. For those who didn’t know her, I hope this gives you a sense of the impact she could have on everyone around her.

441. 2020 Lookback: A new journalist’s first year

When we first spoke with Sarah Ramantanis, she was a freshly minted college graduate eager to get her start in a journalism career. That was back in the early days of the year — and before COVID-19.

But the pandemic has turned out to be something of an opportunity for Ramantanis, who now works for Philanthropy Australia and is about to end her year-long stint as national communications director for UN Youth Australia.

Sarah Ramantanis discusses her first year as a journalist and what it was like working in the time of COVID-19.

“Even though we’re in a pandemic, I’ve probably had one of the best years of my life in a professional standpoint,” she says.

She received the job offer from Philanthropy Australia the week the pandemic hit, she says, and while it’s difficult starting a new job when you can’t sit beside your colleagues and learn from them, Ramantanis says she’s excited about the role.

It’s been difficult to keep learning from people around me because of the stage of life I’m in, I want to learn from people who’ve had a wide range of life experience,” she says. “Everyone has been going through their own challenges. … In a year where a lot of my drive was blocked, I had some days where I woke up and wanted to get done what I had to get done and not anything else,” whereas, during pre-COVID times, she would’ve been one of the first in the office, eager to start the day and learn.

The other silver lining, she feels, is that her ambition to take on these roles at the same time while also working fully remotely will appeal to future employers.

“I think it will show people I’m willing to do the work and be proactive as well as stick around when times are tough,” she says. “If I can do this, it will take me further, especially in the first impression.”

It’s All Journalism host Michael O’Connell checks in with Sarah Ramantanis in the first of a series of conversations with a handful of previous guests. They discuss her wild first year as a professional writer for Philanthropy Australia and UN Youth Australia and why the year, overall, was a great one for her.

404. What’s it like for a new journalist?

440. Google News Initiative wants newsrooms to thrive

Google’s biggest overarching goal isn’t just to help settle debates and track down last-minute holiday gifts.

“Google’s mission overall is to organize the world’s information and make it accessible and useful,” says Ben Monnie, director of global partnership solutions for news at the Google News Initiative. “People come to Google looking for news and information they can trust. We’re making sure we’re supporting the long-term health of that ecosystem. We’re building on our commitment to journalism and helping publishers grow and thrive in today’s digital age. The Google News Initiative is focused on creating healthy business models and healthy ecosystems so those organizations can succeed.”

Google launched its Google News Initiative in 2018 and built its organization on three pillars: Supporting and ensuring organizations that provide “good quality journalism; evolving business models so news organizations don’t just survive but thrive; and leveraging emerging technology so we can help the news industry overall transition to digital,” Monnie says. Google has invested around $190 million so far and has worked with some 6,000 recipients and partners since launching the initiative, offering training and workshops to more than 1.7 million journalists online, plus hundreds of thousands more via in-person training.

The newest effort, the Digital Growth Program, continues Google’s investment in trustworthy and accurate news organizations, especially those that are trying to make inroads into the online world.

“It’s an umbrella program to capture all the playbooks, workshops, how-tos, tools, and best practices about business topics important to news organizations, including consumer revenue,” Monnie says. “We launched this with a fully built-out reader revenue playbook and workshops. The playbook itself is a document created based on some of our work with more than 50 publishers over the last few years, as well as industry experts. … The idea was, let’s create a canonical playbook that will help organizations who don’t have the resources of places like, where I came from, the New York Times, be successful in membership contribution revenue or subscription revenue. Let’s give practical recommendations. We built a series of tools as well as live workshops.”

It’s All Journalism host Michael O’Connell talks with Ben Monnie, director of global partnership solutions for news at the Google News Initiative. They discuss Google’s new Digital Growth Program, the latest effort from the Google News Initiative, and other tools to help news organizations thrive in the digital age.

408. Google News Initiative wants to help local news

Better News: Building strong community partnerships

The Sacramento Bee has used groups outside of mainstream media to attract new readers, gain access to a diverse talent pool of journalists, and elevate the voices of under-resourced communities in the Sacramento area.

Ryan Lillis and Liv Monahan talk about Community Voices at The Sacramento Bee.

Ryan Lillis is the assistant managing editor at the Bee and Liv Monahan is the editor-at-large of the Community Voices project. We talk to both of them about how the legacy newspaper has built strong community partnerships with Community Voices and Ryan shares context on how this project fits into the broader strategy of The Sacramento Bee. Read Better News’ full report about the project here.

Better News: How to use events to grow a diverse audience

439. How the coronavirus changed journalism

The coronavirus pandemic has demonstrated just how adaptable journalists can be.

Adaptability is something Marcus Harun, a video journalist and producer, learned at a young age.

A very young age.

His first project, a 90-minute documentary in middle school, was picked up by the local cable access station and so impressed leadership there, they gave Harun, at age 14, free reign to do his own show. That effort became 24 News, a student-led news program that eventually found a home on YouTube and became a network of sorts, with student journalists across the United States contributing to a live broadcast.

Marcus Harun, a producer at MSNBC, discusses his documentary, Essential Journalists: How Coronavirus Changed TV News.

Harun worked at a Fox affiliate in Connecticut for five years before joining MSNBC 18 months ago, little knowing that the election would be only one essential and fast-breaking story in 2020.

“Election coverage led into an impeachment trial which led into the coronavirus, which led into an uprising pertaining to racial issues, and then coronavirus led into the presidential election,” Harun says. “It’s an amazing time to be at the network level producing news, which is what I was looking for when I started all those years ago.

But he also was quick to notice the significance of the moment. Journalists, as the adage goes, create the first rough draft of history. Seeing the world change around him, minute to minute and day-to-day, as the pandemic took hold meant journalists were also a big part of that historic moment.

Harun is behind the documentary Essential Journalists: How Coronavirus Changed TV News. Based on a series of interviews with reporters at all levels of their career and local and national coverage, Harun explores how reporters were often calling their own shots in real-time when it came to adapting their coverage, and their tools, to meet the pandemic’s demands and restrictions.

“There wasn’t time for the bosses or executive producers or general managers to make decisions of, well this is the way you should do things,” he says. “Journalists just kind of made their own decisions” in order to protect themselves while out in the field, to protect their families at home, and their colleagues in the newsroom or working remotely.

“I think it was even just shocking, just on its face, at the very beginning to see reporters at any level, from local to national, to look up and see reporters in a quad box for team coverage and everyone’s wearing masks,” he says. It was even more startling to realize, every time, that the reporters were in their communities in the United States, not far afield in a foreign country.

It’s All Journalism host Michael O’Connell talks with Marcus Harun, a producer at MSNBC, about his new documentary, Essential Journalists: How Coronavirus Changed TV News. They discuss the way in which journalists took matters into their own hands to protect their health, and the health of their teams, during the early days of the pandemic.

432. Overdose crisis, harm reduction, and the Rust Belt

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